How UK companies can deal with Brexit (Dr. Ulrich Hoppe, Peter Decu, Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht)

00:00:00: Music

00:00:06: Boris Felgendreher: "Hello and welcome to another episode auf Go Global! - Bremen Business Talks. I'm your host, Boris Felgendreher and today's show is all about how UK based companies,

00:00:15: that are doing business across the channel with the EU and with Germany in particular, are dealing with Brexit.

00:00:21: That's a topic that we're covering by popular demand because there are a lot of questions and a lot of issues, that entrepreneurs and business leaders are struggling with at the moment.

00:00:31: So, we decided to check in with two gentlemen, that are on the ground in London and who are there to help companies with all questions related to business and trade between UK

00:00:40: and Germany at this challenging times. My guests today- are Ulrich Hoppe, the

00:00:46: general of the German British Chamber of Industry and Commerce, Peter Decu, who represents bremeninvest in London and in edition we brought in Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht, a well-known German entrepreneur in the global logistics

00:00:59: industry. Let's dive in:

00:01:02: Hello Eduard, welcome to Go Global!-Bremen Business Talks, thank's for being on the program!"

00:01:06: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Hi Boris! A pleasure to be with you on the program. Happy to be here!"

00:01:10: Boris Felgendreher: "Great! Eduard today's episode is highly dedicated to the topic of Brexit from the viewpoint of businesses in the UK,

00:01:18: who are struggling with the current situation there.  And as you know, we have two additional guests on the program, that I had a chance to talk to prior to our conversation today,

00:01:26: but before you and I will listen into that conversation together, let's learn little bit more about your background. You spend most of your professional life as an entrepreneur in global logistics, so you are very close to the struggles and the sort of

00:01:40: tough decisions that entrepreneurs and business leaders in UK are facing right now. Tell us a little more about your background."

00:01:47: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Well, actually, I was born in the United States but as a child of German parents, not even German but parents from Bremen."

00:01:56: Boris Felgendreher: "Very global than!"

00:01:57: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "They met coincidentally in the US, but I actually did grow up in Germany - we moved over when I was six years old, so I went to school in Germany. 

00:02:09: Then, after that, an apprenticeship here in Bremen and military service, I studied in St. Gallen - Switzerland and after that, I went into the forwarding and logistics business where I spend

00:02:20: more than thirty five or about thirty five years and I'm still standing to a certain degree, the actual life - even after selling parts of our business - is not over yet.

00:02:31: So, it continuous and that's good." 

00:02:34: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, so the business you are talking about is Ipsen Logistics, right? Just give us some facts about that global logistic provider, sort of midsize but operating globally, right?"

00:02:43: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Basically, what we do is, we arrange transports worldwide. So, we will

00:02:49: make sure, we find the appropriate trucks, vessels, airplanes,

00:02:54: we do the documentation, we give a lot of advice to our customers. I mean, in an easy definition you can say we're almost like a travel agency for cargo. And I think

00:03:06: that definition makes it easily understandable for everybody."

00:03:11: Boris Felgendreher: "Exactly, and that also explains, or kind of drives the point home how close you are to the current situation. I could imagine

00:03:18: that you guys are very much impacted, you very much have to struggle with some of the same things that people on the ground in UK are facing."

00:03:26: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Absolutely."

00:03:27: Boris Felgendreher: "I would very love to get your perspective a little bit more after we hear the conversation with these two gentlemen

00:03:33: that I had prior to our conversation. So, I talked to Ulrich Hoppe, who is the director-general of the German-British Chamber of Industry and Commerce in London,

00:03:40: and also with Peter Decu, who is representing the State of Bremen in London for bremeninvest. Maybe, you and I will listen into that conversation real quick and then we'll have all the time in the world to sort of set things into perspective, comment on what we have heard from these guys on the ground, who are in constant exchange with companies struggling."

00:03:58: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Indeed." - Boris Felgendreher: "Okay, let's listen into that conversation I had with Ulrich and Peter."

00:04:03: Boris Felgendreher: "Ulrich, Peter, welcome to Go Global!-Bremen Business Talks, thanks for being on the program!"

00:04:08: Peter Decu: "Thanks for having me." - Ulrich Hoppe: "Pleasure to be here."

00:04:10: Boris Felgendreher: "Gentlemen, I would like to talk to you today about Brexit.

00:04:14: That's a topic that feels like that it's been talked about ad nauseam, but there are still lots and lots of questions out there, especially in the business community and especially now as rubber meets the road, so to speak, and as businesses on both sides of the channel have to deal with the real world

00:04:29: consequences of Brexit and we're not gonna answer all of those questions today, but at a minimum we can point people in the right direction and highlight

00:04:37: some of the resources that are available to them. Because as frustrating as the situation may be for some folks on the ground and for businesses doing cross-border trade,

00:04:47: there are solutions and there is help available. So, let's get started. It would be great, if you could quickly introduce yourself. Ulrich, maybe let's start with you. You are the director-general of the German-British Chamber of Industry and

00:05:01: Commerce. What is official role and the charter of that organisation?"

00:05:06: Ulrich Hoppe: "As an organization we are here to promote trade and investment between the UK and Germany and we actually work in both directions. So, we help

00:05:12: German companies to do business in the UK and come to the UK, as well as helping British companies to do business

00:05:19: in Germany as well as helping them to settle in Germany if they want to setup a subsidiary there or a branch. So, really we are based on the belief in free trade and free investment flows, 

00:05:29: that that actually helps both parties."

00:05:32: Boris Felgendreher:" And what was your path into that role? What's your background, what's your carrier look like?"

00:05:38: Ulrich Hoppe: "I am originally from Bremen and I did an apprenticeship as a forwarding agent when I left school. So, and this is not all coming back with Brexit and customs formalities,

00:05:47: of which I thought I left long behind. And then after I did this, I studied finance and accounting in Bremen, went on to an exchange in Leeds, did a Masters then in the UK, went back to Germany, worked for Lufthansa Investor Bank and then I -

00:06:01: by accident- ended up with our umbrella organization the Association of German Chambers of Industry and Commerce.

00:06:07: Then I worked in New York for two years as a deputy director and when my predecessor retired I got asked to apply for that job here,

00:06:13: and if you got asked to apply that's what you do and that's how I ended up 

00:06:18: heading the German-British Chamber of Industry and Commerce in London for nearly twenty-five years now. So time has been flying quickly."

00:06:26: Boris Felgendreher: "But still extraordinary time for you, you probably haven't seen anything like this in your career."

00:06:31: Ulrich Hoppe: "No, I think Brexit and COVID have generated new challenges

00:06:38: and Brexit -of course- has been in the making now since 2016 and COVID just arrived, give or take, or more or less over night.

00:06:47: So, that is why we have to deal with both challenges, at the moment COVID is the larger challenge

00:06:52: but Brexit is probably the one which will occupy

00:06:57: businesses for much longer because the new framework between the EU and the UK still needs time to develop and we have to see how businesses will be affected by this in the long run."

00:07:09: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, and we'll dive into all of that a little bit later. However, Peter you also have a very interesting and very international background, it spends the whole world, so it looks like. You're representing the State of Bremen in London for bremeninvest?"

00:07:22: Peter Decu: "Yes, that is correct."

00:07:23: Boris Felgendreher: "What's bremeninvest? How does it work? Tell me about that organization a little bit."

00:07:27: Peter Decu: "Basically, it started earlier this year, so we a comparatively fresh to the marked but the bremeninvest is a foreign brand for the economic development agency of Bremen. So, the agency which attracts investment to the location of Bremen.

00:07:46: This is what we have started at the beginning of January now."

00:07:50: Boris Felgendreher: "So quite fresh! Was it as response to Brexit and maybe also to COVID or was it something that's been planned long without those two instances happening?"

00:08:00: Peter Decu: "Definitely not because of COVID but because of Brexit. Brexit was the reason - as you correctly mentioned before- why there are certain opportunities at the rise and companies, that might want to venture out in the European Union in order to set up a branch and this is where I want to make the location of Bremen attractive."

00:08:21: Boris Felgendreher: "And what's been your path into the role? I've already teased that you have quite an international background but you are also from Bremen originally, like Ulrich, no?"

00:08:29: Peter Decu: "Yes, like Doctor Hoppe I originate from Bremen and

00:08:34: I was leaving Bremen in 1992 to go to Shanghai for a Bremen trading company, a very traditional trading company, that has a more than 200 year history and is also exposed into the Asian marked in particularly in China since more than 150 years. I was living in Shanghai for twenty-six years before I moved to London in 2018."

00:09:01: Boris Felgendreher: "Okay, interesting! Let's start diving into our topic then, into Brexit.

00:09:07: And Ulrich, you are pretty much in direct and constant exchange with UK businesses, who are doing business in Germany and in international businesses, who have set up production and facilities in UK to service the European and the German market. How would describe the

00:09:21: current mood among that community right now?"

00:09:24: Ulrich Hoppe:" The current mood is still numb, which is

00:09:28: mostly characterized by the administrative issues they are facing now in terms of customs and VAT, if they want to

00:09:36: trade with the European Union. So, there are still a lot of uncertainties especially in the small and medium sized sector, because they didn't have all the resources to

00:09:45: properly prepare. And especially as this free trade agreement was only agreed on Christmas Eve. So, there wasn't much time to adjust

00:09:53: to the new environment from first of January onward. So,

00:09:58: the short term problem is really customs and administrative formalities, but the longer term problem is in terms of how regulation will continue:

00:10:09: working in Poland or will I go and differ more substantially? And this will influence

00:10:16: location decisions of companies. Firstly in terms of from where to serve

00:10:21: European customers, but also where you actually put down some production facilities, because that depends on global value added chains/global supply chains. And that's still currently

00:10:33: been worked out for a number of companies, because it's too early to say

00:10:37: at the moment how they will decide, but we will expect a shift in sourcing decisions and also in supply chain location decisions. That is going to happen. How big that will be remains to be seen. That is still 

00:10:52: early days for that, but we've already seen that to some extend that investment was put on hold

00:10:58: because of the Brexit uncertainty and now, as we have some more certainty how the world is going to emerge in terms of the trading framework, these decisions will now be really analysed and slowly 

00:11:11: being made and put into action."

00:11:13: Boris Felgendreher: "Do you have some concrete numbers to illustrate how Brexit has impacted trade already between the UK and Germany and particles so far?"

00:11:21: Ulrich Hoppe: "We've seen the January figures in terms of export and import between the UK and Germany being substantially down.

00:11:29: February was already back to a sort of normal. So, I think overall we can probably say since the referendum trade has probably shrunk to three percent

00:11:39: per anum. Between the UK and Germany of course last year was more difficult but has largely to do

00:11:45: with COVID, with the UK economy shrinking so much and therefore being less able to buy for end goods. So, that remains to be seen how that is going to develop.

00:11:54: But trade has been coming down since before the referendum and I think that trend will continue

00:12:01: and supply chains will be -in a word- simplified. So, we probably see less cross border trade, more things produced locally to serve  the respective market and that will be the development for the years to come."

00:12:14: Boris Felgendreher: "Yeah Peter, that sentiment that Ulrich just described about the mood of the community, is that in line with what you're hearing from the community now?

00:12:22: Peter Decu: "Definitely so. I would say, that the bigger companies have also of course made their homework in the bars with certain task force ever put in place but it's the small and medium sized companies that struggle right now.

00:12:36: In particular, because the final decision and the final deal was only

00:12:39: done so late. And they are facing a lot of challenges on the cross border trade into the European Union.

00:12:47: Before, it was very simple. I mean, whether you delivered goods within the UK or whether you delivered them into the EU, it didn't make a lot of difference. But now, you have this red tape you have to cope with

00:12:59: and that makes it very difficult for them."

00:13:02: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, can you give us a couple of specific issues or examples to sort of illustrate that sort of red tape and what is going on, maybe a couple of tangible examples, that make it come to life?"

00:13:10: Peter Decu: "I can always talk about this cheese-maker, who was delivering about forty percent of his production to individual clients in the EU and there was no problem before.

00:13:20: So now, I mean, you have for products that are produced in Britain no customs duty but

00:13:27: you have other regulations that kick in. And

00:13:32: if a client in the EU would buy a peace of cheese with this maker now, then he would have to pay 160 Euro for food & house certificate on top of it. So, nobody is going to do that. And he has to find solutions in order to 

00:13:44: not to lose forty percent of his turnover that he was supplying to this market before. And one of the options is of course to set up a branch somewhere in the EU

00:13:54: and this is where we want to make Bremen attractive."

00:13:56: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, if we look across the different industries, what industries have been impacted the most? Of this?"

00:14:02: Peter Decu: "Well, basically I think the food and beverage industry is definitely one of the industries. But I think, everybody is affected, I mean, it's not

00:14:10: a matter of individual industries but definitely about across the whole board."

00:14:18: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, Ulrich, do you agree or do you see certain patterns when you look across the different industries and how they are impacted?"

00:14:24: Ulrich Hoppe: "I agree with Peter, because I think, as he mentioned the food and drinks industries, because they have access certificates, house certificates. So, there you will have extra regulation in any case, independent of customs formalities. And then,

00:14:36: what we've also seen is companies who operate in global supply chains. That is very difficult because rules of origin requirements are coming in, because it is 

00:14:44: just a free trade agreement, it is no longer participation in the single market. So, if parts originate from other

00:14:51: parts of the world then customs formalities

00:14:56: may lead to extra costs because then the rules of origin-requirements for free trade are no longer fulfilled.

00:15:02: But what we've also seen is like a lot of direct transactions in terms of companies delivering to consumers or their final customers,

00:15:11: either in the EU or in the UK.

00:15:13: Largely on income terms like delivered duty paid. They have problems because they now need a customs representative, that's extra costs and that is very difficult to handle.

00:15:24: It also adds time to the delivery time and uncertainty in terms of being able to stick to agreed delivery days. And therefore, these companies also need to also simplify

00:15:35: their logistics chain and they need to operate warehouses now in the EU to actually be able to deliver to their customers on time as promised. Because these difficulties in terms of their

00:15:47: transport should not be underestimated in this day and age. When we look at Amazon, who delivers on time on target and this is a demand, which many consumers 

00:15:58: now have and many companies have. And this is an issue, which companies now have to look at in order to keep their market share."

00:16:06: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, let's double click a little bit on that strategy of UK businesses, setting up subsidiaries, production facilities and warehouses and so forth, in Germany or in Europe

00:16:17: to service the German and the European market. 

00:16:20: How much of that are you already seeing? Is that already happening as we speak or is it something that is on some peoples radars but hasn't already kicked in, or how would you describe that strategy?"

00:16:29: Ulrich Hoppe: "It has been happening now for forty five years in various forms. Companies have already started few days ago to set up a subsidiary in Germany or in another European country just to be there, to operate with the local legal identity

00:16:46: that you can actually then put

00:16:47: all the processes in place in terms of customs clearance and so on. That is actually helpful, if you have your own company there, and have already looked at warehousing capacities and so on. So that's been a slow

00:16:59: process in terms of keeping the delivery chain running smoothly.

00:17:05: In terms of shifting production to the various different locations

00:17:10: that, I think, we haven't seen to a large extend. So, we've heard this from some sectors in the automotive industries

00:17:17: and so on. But I think, that needed first of all

00:17:21: clarity in terms of what the future trading relationship will look like. And that, as we already said and heard, have been a ware off since Christmas Eve.

00:17:32: And the details are still need to be hammered out or get used to, in terms of what that all actually means on the ground. So, there I think, we'll probably see adjustments to

00:17:43: production chains over the coming years, because that takes much longer

00:17:48: to analyze and then also to implement. So, it's not that companies are closing factories and the UK moves somewhere else. I think, it's small adjustments here or there.

00:17:58: But what we will see is

00:18:00: what is very often called this kind of nearshoring. So, you have to be in that market. For a lot of European companies that probably have to have some more

00:18:09: activity in the UK to serve that market, but also the other way round: some UK companies need to be in Europe with a larger presence to serve that market."

00:18:17: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, maybe if we look at some of the pros and cons of that strategy, like relocating some of the production facilities into continental Europe, maybe even into Germany, would you describe some of the pros and cons of that strategy, that should be wait?"

00:18:31: Ulich Hoppe: "I think, that has a lot to do with the individual supply chain and where these products in the end go to. So, companies need to look at 

00:18:41: the global world, which market am I going to serve for me. EU location, which market am I going to serve for me or UK location. And that's of course, we have the customs formalities and free trade agreements and all this, but then it has also to do with

00:18:54: 'do I have the right skills out there, the technology?' and all these other location factors, which are very much company dependent in terms of their decision.

00:19:03: These location decisions are very complex decisions. Many factors play a role and of course, we had a stable system up until

00:19:12: Britain decided to leave the EU and that has brought in some instability and now we know

00:19:18: what the future framework will look like and now these adjustments will take place. But it is very much on an individual company basis that these decisions are being made with many factors

00:19:28: coming into play."

00:19:29: Boris Felgendreher: "Peter, I mean it's one of the core strategies, the core charters of bremeninvest to

00:19:34: consult businesses, that want to make that move, that maybe want to relocate and set up sharp in Bremen ideally.

00:19:41: What's your approach there? How do you consult companies, how do they interact with you, how do they work with you, as they make this very important strategic decisions?"

00:19:49: Peter Decu: "Funny enough, when we've started this project I looked at a European map and if you look at the countries from Scandinavia down to Portugal and 

00:19:58: to the East of Eastern European states. Then, if you point your finger to the middle, you very much end up near Bremen. So, Bremen

00:20:07: is a very central location within Europe which is of course ideal for distribution within the EU.

00:20:15: And the history of Bremen is also very closely connected with logistical services since a long time. You have here many advantages in Bremen

00:20:25: on that part, because you have basically a sea port but you also have the inland waterways 

00:20:31: connected with highways, I mean the A1, the highway number one goes through Bremen. And you have the railway systems and the air traffic as well. So, I mean from that point of view of course Bremen is a very agile location.

00:20:46: The other thing that Bremen has is a very big advantage, that it is a very efficient

00:20:54: and small city. I mean, the ways are never very far in Bremen. Literally, if you look at the market place you have the town hall and you have the chamber of commerce and the economic development agency in five minutes walking distance apart from each other. And they are all very closely connected and communicate very quick. So, if you set up a shop

00:21:18: in Bremen, than the ways are not very long and you make it very quick."

00:21:26: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, Ulrich, what about you? Is it a tough sell if you talk to UK based companies to relocate to Germany or into Bremen? Have you had conversations along those lines or is there a lot of interest developing or do you have to go actively outside and sell?"

00:21:41: Ulrich Hoppe: "There is a lot of interest by companies who sell to the German market, and in the first place really in terms of how to secure that market in future. So, they do look at Germany

00:21:52: in terms of 'where shall I establish a food hold' and that really then depends on their requirements. So, 

00:21:59: where are their major customers, so, logistics is a key asset of any logistic center

00:22:06: for these companies, who need warehouse and capacity to serve the market.

00:22:11: And then furthermore, in terms of the skill-set you need, I think that is always important for any location

00:22:19: in order to show potential investors: yes, you can also find the right skills here. It is not just about the land, it is really about the human infrastructure, which is so important. And also getting the help in terms of navigating to the

00:22:34: administrative issues, which you have in every location, in every country. So, companies really want to focus on the entrepreneurial activity, on being a company, on doing business and less

00:22:45: on the administration. So, these are, say, freaky factors which are important for companies in terms of their decision making and it varies then from company to company, which one is more important." 

00:22:57: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, help me out or explain to me, how you are of active service as companies make these decisions? How do you interact with them, what's the form of ways of interacting with these companies that are facing these difficult decisions?"

00:23:10: Ulrich Hoppe: "So, we bring them together with economic development agencies.

00:23:15: Law firms on the ground in Germany who can help them to fulfill the legal requirements, which they have to

00:23:22: do when they form a company in Germany.

00:23:26: But, that it is really being there, helping them in their decision making, really helping them in terms of a structured approach

00:23:34: at what factors to look at and then putting them in touch with the right people. That is always important. Yes, you can make a decision

00:23:43: at your desk or so and you look at your map and you look at your customers and that might make sense and so on. But then you also need to have this kind of

00:23:51: personal infrastructure which helps you along the way. And I think that's 

00:23:55: where our organization's mission is really to promote trade and investment between the UK and Germany. Come in,  

00:24:02: actually bringing people together, putting them in touch, so that they can then actually hammer out themselves, what they need to do in order to drive their business forward and to tackle and secure new markets."

00:24:14: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, a lot of that stuff obviously depends on personal interaction and personal contact and we haven't had any of that for the last eighteen months or so. And how has that impacted the way you do business and bring companies together?"

00:24:27: Ulrich Hoppe: "My feeling is, that it is very difficult to compare the UK and Germany advert. The UK has always been a bit more flexible,

00:24:37: they are more easy going in terms of trying out new things, talking to other people, even they don't know them, being

00:24:45: more open minded. That doesn't mean any business will come out of it but one tends to listen: 'oh yeah, somebody has a proposition, we listen and then we go from there'. So, this kind of openness,

00:24:55: which is part of the British business culture

00:24:59: actually has somehow helped to manage this pandemic, when we only meet virtually. Because this general tendency of openness

00:25:07: also extends to this virtual form. And I don't know, that's very difficult for me, to judge from the UK perspective now,

00:25:17: what these interactions are like in Germany."

00:25:19: Boris Felgendreher: "Peter, what about bremeninvest? What's been the impact that COVID had on your way to interact with companies and really get a good job done?"

00:25:29: Peter Decu: "I said, we've started only on the first of January. So I mean,

00:25:33: the first border was very much dedicated to come up with the market study and to get a grip of the market and how are we going to continue with this approach in the future. So I mean, COVID was actually ideal for that, because a lot of this is

00:25:46: internet research. And now, with so many people in Britain having been vaccinated, the market is already opening up. So, we are now of course going more actively out. The trade shows will start soon, the functions will start soon again and the events. So, this is where we're going to do the networking as well as via certain organizations. And we also have come up and start to promote Bremen as a location via social media. So these are the approaches we follow up at the moment."

00:26:26: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, and maybe as wrapping up this conversation, I would like to get you guys to some prediction about

00:26:32: what the rest of the year will hold. I know, it's difficult in such volatile circumstances but maybe a couple of predictions that you have about how we are getting

00:26:42: out of all this mess. Ulrich, let's start with you, what are your predictions for the year?"

00:26:48: Ulrich Hoppe: "I think, we have to get used,

00:26:51: not just up to the end of this year but for the years to come, that we have to live with a higher level of uncertainty. I think, we've all lived

00:26:59: probably since the end of the second World War in this kind of certainty, predictability,

00:27:04: in this kind of environment and that's not going to come back very quickly. So I think, societies have adjust to that their businesses.

00:27:13: That is really the new normal.

00:27:15: That is interesting and challenging for a lot of us in the industrialized world. I mean people in the developing world, they always had this insecurity and uncertainty, also in middle income countries. We didn't have that, so we need to adjust to that.

00:27:30: That will be the biggest challenge. The second

00:27:33: prediction I make is that international travel will still be difficult for a long time to go. Yes, we've seen that in the UK with the vaccination, Peter mentioned that already. That has led to

00:27:44: some kind of positive optimism here in the UK while international travel,

00:27:49: that will still be very difficult, because countries will always fear 'are we importing another stray of COVID germs or a different mutation'. So, I think,

00:28:00: that we see some normality there returning, that will take much longer. But that's why I think,

00:28:06: making another case, so, it is probably worthwhile for companies really to be closer to their customers in future, to be in different markets with a stronger presence, just to be able to serve that market. Because the sorting out issues by

00:28:20: international travel will still be far more difficult. So, one has to be very much closer to one's costumers."

00:28:26: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, very much agree. Peter, what about your predictions for the rest of the year?"

00:28:31: Peter Decu: "I can only fully agree with Ulrich. He has actually touched the points very correctly. I mean, international travel will be difficult and will be linked to the security within the different countries. So, I guess, that there will be countries where vaccination rates are very high and certain corridors might be introduced. I mean, we see this happening already between for example Australia and New Zealand, where people can travel rather freely without going into quarantine. And this will happen with other markets or other countries as well. But travel as a whole will be difficult for some time to come."

00:29:12: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, let's see, maybe we'll reconvene exactly here for now to see how things have panned out, if the silver linings have materialized and things are

00:29:22: somewhat back to normal. We hope that of course. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being on the program today. It was a very good conversation. I leave some links in the show notes for people, who want to double click and see what both of these organizations that you represent can offer to companies that are struggling with the current Brexit situation. There is lot of good stuff that you

00:29:41: can provide in terms of resources and active helps. So, that is good stuff and I'll provide information in form of links. Thank's again for being on the program guys.-

00:29:51: Right, Eduard, first comments or observations from what you have heard from the folks on the ground?"

00:29:58: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Well, I would clearly say, that the two gentlemen hit a lot of the appropriate points.

00:30:04: Whether it concerns the impact of Brexit, of COVID and also the general atmosphere in business in a time of change. I think, actually COVID has

00:30:16: clearly sort of

00:30:18: unveiled the necessity for change. If we look at Germany and digitalization, it becomes very clear, this is something, where we must

00:30:28: work hard on. This became clear. Another thing of course is, we are talking about Brexit, 

00:30:35: and we've been negative about it and there's plenty of uncertainty but there is also opportunity. You know, we must always see the opportunity. There is opportunity for instance for a place like Bremen,

00:30:48: to say that. You know, in the past it wouldn't have been so obvious for UK companies to invest in Bremen and perhaps to open a subsidiary in Bremen. This may now become much more obvious. And necessary. 

00:31:03: So, why don't look at opportunities as well in this difficult time, because we will not be able to read

00:31:11: everything what the authorities have in mind in terms of regulations, customs and so forth. And we've got to live with it and get used to it.

00:31:20: The British are actually very good that."

00:31:21: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, and Eduard, of course you are looking at everything through the lens of an entrepreneur in the logistic space. What are some of the things that you've

00:31:29: observed, that you've heard, that haven't been mentioned by these folks there. I mean, they have a different perspective right there from the Chamber of Commerce and from bremeninvest, but you are an entrepreneur and you are in the logistic space, which has been impacted by Brexit, probably in a very dramatic way, I mean, much differently than some of the other industries, right?"

00:31:47: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Indeed, it really depends on which field of logistics you're looking at. If you are strictly looking at transportation, trucking,

00:31:56: and if you've seen the original chaos, that has been dramatic for the trucking companies. And

00:32:04: many of them will also have lost money because their customers simply did not replace the cost. On the other hand, if you look at

00:32:12: regulations, customs, formalities - this is an opportunity for us. You know, customs agents disappeared in Europe a few years ago. Well, now that becomes necessary.

00:32:25: So, here is an opportunity which will definitely also take place and which already is taking place, because the

00:32:34: trading companies or the importers will require our services and our know how. 

00:32:40: So, there is an opportunity for sure, which maybe the gentlemen didn't work out as much even though they mentioned the obstacles but as I said, in every obstacle is also an opportunity for somebody else, who knows how to tackle it."

00:32:53: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, you just said that it's becoming obvious, that Bremen is a place, that UK companies should take a look at. Let's take a look, let's unpack that staple a little bit further. We've heard both gentlemen talk on Bremen a little bit but 

00:33:05: you are even closer to the action, right? You are on the ground, here. That's where your business is located. Give us your best

00:33:11: pitch, so to speak, of what makes Bremen so special or why it deserves special attention right now?"

00:33:16: Eduard Duppers-Albrecht: "I loved the image, Mr. Decu described about Bremen being central."

00:33:23: Boris Felgendreher: "Yes."

00:33:23: Eduard Duppers-Albrecht: "Also, because I used that myself, many years ago in India, when I did a presentation. But further than that:

00:33:31: if you look at Bremen, than in comparison to other places, Bremen is relatively affordable.

00:33:39: I think, that's a very important point. If you at, I hate to say it almost, but Rotterdam, than this is a fantastic agglomeration, but it's expensive there. 

00:33:49: If you look at Hamburg, our other competitor, it's much more expensive. Bremen and also the outskirts of Bremen is not as expensive, both for living but also for warehouses,

00:34:02: starting warehouses, a small warehouse. All the logistics, the people...and

00:34:07: the two gentlemen have mentioned that Bremen is really a hotspot in terms of logistics and people know each other and there are short distances and things are easy to move forward.

00:34:17: But the cost of establishing a business here, I'd like to put the emphasis on that, is definitely lower than elsewhere.

00:34:27: And then to move into Europe from Bremen, that was mentioned, is logistically very easy. We have everything we need.

00:34:35: You know, if you look for instance at the big

00:34:38: cargo logistics center, I use the German term, you know what I mean -"Güterverkehrszentrum." It is the most advanced in Europe. It has just recently been awarded as being the number one in Europe. And it is fantastic, there is still certain 

00:34:53: space available and if you have a location there, then from there you can really service the European market very well.

00:35:02: and again: at affordable cost. So, that works well."

00:35:06: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, and what might not be as obvious to folks on the ground in the UK is that Bremerhaven is a part of Bremen, right? And that it is a very attractive harbour with a long history and just ready to do business, so to speak."

00:35:18: Eduard Duppers-Albrecht: "Well and in addition, we have the Luneplatform,

00:35:25: which is a huge industrial area, which is looking for development, which is ready for development, both for industrial and logistics purposes and you're totally right.

00:35:38: When I say Bremen, I always mean the cities of Bremen and Bremerhaven together. 

00:35:44: And there is absolutely great opportunity there. And it's easy to reach from the UK. 

00:35:51: So, that is absolutely no problem, there is ferry services, there is vessels and liner services between the UK in Bremerhaven, it's easy."

00:36:00: Boris Felgendreher: "Maybe to finish off, give us some concrete advice of what you would recommend from an entrepreneur to an entrepreneur, if you where running a business in UK

00:36:10: and thinking about all these things, that we

00:36:12: talked about in this program. What would be your approach? How would you go about it? How would you find advice? Who would you contact? How would you go about it?"

00:36:20: Eduard Duppers-Albrecht: "Indeed, I would contact bremeninvest in the UK, because that's the first and most obvious step to get some information.

00:36:30: In addition then, I certainly would recommend, even despite COVID, travelling to Bremen, just to get a feel for it.

00:36:40: And then, once in Bremen, contact us here or contact the Chamber of Commerce. Language is not an issue here in Bremen. It's easy to communicate,

00:36:49: to figure out, to get

00:36:51: a feel, what this place has to offer, also in terms of it's international focus, which I think is very

00:36:59: special and goes back to a long history, obviously. That doesn't truly help currently, but fact is, that we are very

00:37:09: open-minded to international business and to have international investment here. And once, you find out, that the chamber could also introduce potential investors to

00:37:24: entrepreneurs here, so you can talk to your peers. And you can talk about the pros and

00:37:30: yes, also the cons, which may exist. So, that people really get an open feeling and an honest idea about what Bremen has to offer. I would really

00:37:43: support the, so called, hands-on approach. That by going yourself, getting in touch with people. All this is very easy in Bremen and there is plenty of people, who would be willing

00:37:55: to openly discuss investing here and doing business from here. So, that would be my very practical advice."

00:38:03: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, I can here you're an entrepreneur, it's a very practical advice. It's how we like it. Eduard, I asked Ulrich and Peter for their predictions, I would be curious to hear some of your predictions about what the rest of the year will unfold. What's in store for us?"

00:38:21: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "I actually think that in terms of -let's call it industrial output- and exports/imports we are much farther than what people tend to say.

00:38:34: You know, that's what really is driving us, currently. So, we needn't truly catch up, in that regard. 

00:38:41: What is important of course, is that we develop a plan for reopening.

00:38:48: I'm afraid, things will take - and they are already taking longer than we've hoped so. And the two gentlemen mentioned that, they mentioned international travel, open travel, maybe also getting rid of fear.

00:39:00: There are certain people, who simply have fear of travelling, which is very understandable,

00:39:06: and yet must be overcome, of course. So, we indeed will have to live with this situation for quite a while. But let me mention something, which I think they are doing well in the UK.

00:39:19: Mr. Johnson did that with a lot of personal risk. 

00:39:23: He set up this plan and he said 'on day x we going to do this and day y we are going to do this' and he's following these steps and what he has accomplished with this already

00:39:35: is, he has given his people a vision.

00:39:38: They're following that and suddenly, there is hope in the country. And everybody knows and is realistic enough, that there are maybe obstacles and problems but basically, people are optimistic. 

00:39:49: And I think, this is very important to establish this also not only in Germany but basically in continental Europe.

00:39:56: We, to a certain degree are too negative. So, my prediction is, if we overcome this negative sentiment, then we have a good chance for getting back to 

00:40:10: a normal, not the normal but a new normal. That's what I'm looking for."

00:40:18: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, there is a great German word for what you described, which is Planungssicherheit.

00:40:23: the security of knowing of what's ahead, of  'give me something to work with, give me something I can plan with', that's a nice German word, what that describes. What's also plays into our need of security, right?"

00:40:37: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Exactly!"

00:40:38: Boris Felgendreher: "Planungssicherheit would be a good thing."

00:40:39: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "It definitely would be a very good thing and I believe, that is absolutely necessary now, because we are not at stage one! None of us really knew what we were facing. 

00:40:52: But now, we are far advanced and we have the vaccines, we have various techniques of battling the disease and so forth. So, we should look at that! And

00:41:06: it's necessary. You know, in businesses it's the same. Or, if you take an Englishman who wants to invest in Bremen: he will not know everything, but he will have a certain plan to move forward and follow that and then hopefully be successful."

00:41:22: Boris Felgendreher: "Ja, hopefully we've given some impulses or some concrete advice of how that can be done. We'll leave some links in the show notes and I think, we've expressed now, that the infrastructure is in place to be of help. So, nobody is on their own, nobody has

00:41:39: to invent the wheel. There are lots of information-sharing, there is best

00:41:41: practice-sharing. There is concrete help available and Bremen is open for business. So, that's a clear signal from here."

00:41:50: Eduard Dubbers-Albrecht: "Awesome!"

00:41:50: Boris Felgendreher: "Eduard, thank you very much for your time today, thank you very much for that perspective. I think,

00:41:56: it was very important to have an entrepreneur's and a business owner's perspective in all of this. So, thank you very much, much appreciated.

00:42:04: Alright, that was the Go Global! Bremen Business Talks episode about how UK companies are dealing with Brexit. If you liked today's show, please subscribe to the Go Global! Bremen Business Talk podcast.

00:42:18: We have a number of exciting guests and topics around global trade and business coming up in English and German, that you don't wanna miss. I'm Boris Felgendreher. Until next time!